Related stories: Vet faces ghost of Vietnam memory by Mark Arsenault
and
A free spirit lost - chances are you know someone with asthma by Brian Jones

Two Providence Journal writers, Mark Arsenault and Brian Jones, recently were asked to discuss how they converted small nuggets of stories on their beats into bigger stories.

Mark could not go to a ceremony where U.S. Sen. Jack Reed of Rhode Island pinned a medal on Vietnam Veteran John Campbell, but he did set up an interview later with Campbell. Mark found that Campbell was used to telling his story, but he would get revved up and Mark would have to stop him and slow him down by talking about other issues. That was the pattern of the interviews. They would do the emotional issues in bits and pieces.

"I knew that once we had spent some time together that the story was not that a Vet was getting his medals after 30 years, the story was what happened 30 years ago," said Mark. "All I had to do was to go back in time 30 years."

Mark interviewed Campbell about a half dozen times. Towards the end they were comfortable talking to each other, to the point where it felt like Mark was part of Campbell's therapy group.

In the first interview Mark did not take any notes.

"I knew we would be going all over this again. I decided I would just listen to it, that I'll remember most of it, and once he is comfortable we will do it again. I did not even slow him down in the beginning."

Mark said Campbell seemed to like the fact that he looked him right in the eye. And Mark said he discovered within the first 20 minutes that the story really was about a man who had beaten another man to death and how it had screwed up his life for the next 30 years.

When it happened, Mark said he got excited just thinking about it.

Some of the writers in the room were in awe that Mark had not taken notes in the first interview.

"I was not really worried about getting the perfect quote and if you notice there really are not a lot of quotes from John Campbell, except what is on the tape," explained Mark.

Mark did not even know about the tape that is used in the story until he had interviewed Campbell several times. It came up accidentally, but Mark grabbed the opportunity to listen to it.

The seminar then turned to Brian and his story about Morgan Stone, a college student who died of asthma. He said this was really a story that just fell into his lap. People wanted to talk about her, they wanted to talk about asthma, and even family members who at the beginning were somewhat reluctant soon decided they would talk to him.

Brian said the immersion process for this story was so complete that when he got to the point where he was ready to write, much of it had been sleeping in his head.

"When you find a great story in nature, what you are hoping is that you do not screw it up," said Brian. "When you realize how good it is, and how lucky you have been to find it, what if you do harm to it? You are hoping you don't hurt it."

Brian thought of what it was like to be a parent and how this is the most horrible thing that could happen to a parent. That is why he began with Morgan's Mom and her reaction when she first learned that there had been an accident.

Said Brian: "It seemed so obvious that was where to begin the journey."

It also helped, Brian said, that he tape-recorded this and almost every interview. He had the details in the tape to convey what happened when she came home.

(The two writers have diametrically different views on using tape recorders. Mark says he never uses them. He says he tried several times early on his career, became dissatisfied, and has stayed away from them. Brian says he tapes everything. Many times he only uses them as a backup, but he is glad to have it because he does like to refer to it.)

There was a long discussion about the ending, an ending Brian said he struggled with. The problem is there were too many good ways to conclude the story.

Brian first thought that the ending would be a comment by Mrs. Stone, who was uncomfortable being interviewed. At one point she said, I just wish that Morgan had this assignment, she would be so good at it.

Brian thought that was great but as he got into the story he began to have second thoughts. Then he talked to Morgan's roommate and she described a little crabapple tree that they had planted at the college in memory of Morgan. And she said, "it is snowing out here. Isn't that funny, you would not think it would snow out here."

"I just thought that quote was so great," said Brian. "You would not think someone would die of asthma, that someone would die so young."

But when Brian gave the story to a number of editors and other people, they did not understand the significance of the quote.

Many in the room felt the quote would have worked fine. Still, Journal business writer Lynn Arditi said the final choice for the ending was powerful and effective. It has to do with that crabapple. Here it is:

The tree is thriving. Its surviving a cold, snowy New Mexico winter, its bare leafless limbs still decorated with beads, tiny stuffed animals and ribbons.

One suggestion was that perhaps Brian should have spelled out what the quote meant to him.

Mark did not have the same problems with his ending. In it, Campbell tells his story yet one more time and at the end, he wipes his hands.

"He did that all the time," said Mark.

"You must have known early on that you were going to use it," said Journal staff writer Tom Mooney.

"That was going to be the ending from the first time I saw it," said Mark.

The first time you saw it, did you know what he was doing?

"He actually did it, and one time he said, 'oh look I'm wiping my hands. I do that sometimes.' And then after that I was watching him after that."

Just to be safe, Mark planted the image of the hands in two different places.

Mark said he did not want to end on a note that Campbell had been cured. This version says he is not cured without saying it.

Tips for Digging Deep:

- Report the details until you know the story inside out.

- Set out to know your characters the way you set out to know your friends. Know the way they act, think, feel.

- Don't do a one-shot interview. Go back again and again if you can.

- Don't set out to do a victim story or a hero story. Make your characters real.

- Interview without taking notes in the first session. Be an active listener, don't worry about the quotes, they will come later.