If judges want to turn up the heat or air conditioning in courthouses across Rhode Island, they have to call the Department of Administration and talk to a guy named Vinny.

"Every judge has a Vinny story," Supreme Court Chief Justice Frank J. Williams said in touting a bill that would give the court system full control over its courthouses.

Williams said that when he was a Superior Court judge in Washington County, he had to call Vinny to get the air conditioning turned on in his courtroom.

"I've never met the man," he said. "It's like the wood fairy."

But Vincent N. Iannuzzi doesn't work in an enchanted forest. He works in a small, windowless room inside the Department of Administration building, where he uses computers to monitor and regulate the heating, ventilation and air-conditioning systems of 14 state buildings from the grand marble State House to the cramped Kent County Court House.

There's no doubt that Iannuzzi, the state's interim buildings and grounds coordinator, is helpful, Williams said. But court officials say it would make more sense if the building superintendents in each courthouse could control their own heating and cooling systems.

The proposal is part of a larger effort

by Rhode Island's judicial branch to gain more control over its budget and operations a push that Williams frames in terms of "separation of powers" and ensuring an "independent judiciary."

In 1995, the responsibility for maintaining and repairing courthouses shifted from the Department of Administration to the court system, but the executive branch retained "jurisdiction and authority" over court buildings.

Court Administrator Thomas G. Bowman said the court system is responsible for identifying maintenance and repair needs and must pay for that work out of the court budget. Yet, he said, the Department of Administration still acts like the landlord, maintaining veto power over the court system's decisions.

The heating and cooling issue is just one example, Bowman said, arguing that the court system should be allowed to control its heat, since it pays for the oil that produces that heat.

So now the court system is backing a bill that would give it full jurisdiction over courthouses. "I look at it as an unfinished transition," said Paul M. Petit, assistant court administrator for facilities and operations.

The proposed legislation is being sponsored by House Judiciary Chairman Robert E. Flaherty, D-Warwick, who held a hearing on the bill last week. "The executive shouldn't be exercising discretion over the day-to-day management of the judiciary," Flaherty said afterward. "It should be left to them to manage their day-to-day operations."

Flaherty said he sees no conflict in the fact that his brother is Supreme Court Justice Francis X. Flaherty. If the bill passes, it would simply mean that his brother "can turn on his own heat," he said.

Erika Kruse, the Supreme Court's general counsel, spoke in favor of the bill, saying, "If you are going to give us the responsibility to maintain and supervise the courthouses, then we should have full jurisdiction." The current "bifurcated setup" causes "inefficient operational problems," she said, citing the need to call Iannuzzi to adjust the heat.

No one spoke against the bill at the hearing. But in interviews, Iannuzzi and his boss, Division of Central Services interim Associate Director William H. Ferguson, said the current system is needed to ensure proper operations and save money.

Iannuzzi is on call 24 hours a day. If the temperature dips too low in a courthouse, sensors trigger an alarm and the computer system pages Iannuzzi, who sleeps with his pager under his pillow set on "vibrate" so it doesn't wake his wife. He can then access the state computers and turn up the heat from his home in North Providence or from anyplace where he can plug in his laptop computer.

"There's no delay," Iannuzzi said.

Another factor, Ferguson said, is that with 45 years' experience in heating and air conditioning, Iannuzzi knows what he's doing. Before joining the state work force 16 years ago, he ran the Iannuzzi & Son refrigeration, heating and air conditioning company in Providence.

"It's unlikely they could find someone with Vinny's experience and capability," Ferguson said. "It's not that simple to do."

For example, if it became stuffy in a building, an inexperienced operator might open a damper, letting in frigid air that could freeze a heating coil, costing the state thousands of dollars, Ferguson said.

Iannuzzi and an assistant oversee four computer systems inside the "computer room," situated amid a maze of cubicles in the 1 Capitol Hill office building.

Recently, he demonstrated the computer systems, calling up a schematic diagram that showed the administration building's heating and cooling units, plus the outdoor temperature 28 degrees. He checked a schedule for the building's conference rooms, showing how he adjusts temperatures based on whether the rooms will be occupied or not. He pointed out a list of companies he calls when equipment fails. And to show how quickly he can adjust temperatures, he pushed some buttons, immediately triggering the air conditioning in the computer room. "Bing," he said, "right away it's on."

"My job is basically energy conservation, saving money," Iannuzzi said. "But the first priority is taking care of the people if a person is uncomfortable, they're not able to work properly, especially if they're just sitting at a desk."

For most people, the ideal range is 69 to 72 degrees. But Iannuzzi said Williams likes his courtroom "a little bit on the cold side," and Ferguson likes his office so cold that secretaries complain. "It's a matter of getting to know the people, the buildings and the equipment in the buildings," Iannuzzi said. "It's something you don't learn overnight."

Ferguson said the computerized system saves energy and has allowed the state to operate with 75 percent fewer boiler operators. When the law changed in 1995, court officials wanted the Department of Administration to maintain control over heating and cooling, he said.

And if the court system took on those responsibilities now, it would mean hiring more people, Ferguson said, saying there's no need to duplicate the duties assigned to Iannuzzi, who makes $45,874 a year. "They would spend more money to have less competence," he said.

But Bowman said the courts would not have to hire anyone new. "We have our own people who can do it," he said. And court officials said Iannuzzi would still have a job, since he oversees other state buildings.

Williams said courthouse heat is just part of a larger effort to have "judicial separation of powers." He said, "It's not an effort to grandstand or grab power from the other branches." Rather, he said, the court system is striving to be a fully "independent yet accountable branch of government."

Williams said the court system plans to push again this year for a bill that would prevent the governor from slashing the court budget before presenting it to the legislature. He said that in 29 other states the executive branch cannot amend the court budget.

Williams emphasized that the courts are a branch of government not just another state agency. And he said that in the past two years, the court system has not sought supplemental funds to cover overspending during the fiscal year.

Under his proposal, the governor could still make recommendations about court spending, and he noted that the General Assembly would still be able to change the court-system budget.

Governor Carcieri's spokesman, Jeff Neal, said that while he has made no final decision, Carcieri has "significant concerns" about the concept.

"The governor believes it is important that we consider the state budget as a whole. Spending in every department, agency and branch affects the ability to spend in every other department, agency and branch," Neal said. "Because the governor has an overview of the entire operation of state government, he is in the best position to balance the competing needs and to make recommendations to the General Assembly."

Also, Neal said, "If you look at the model in the federal government, the president proposes a budget to Congress that does include spending for all three branches of government."