President Obama’s agonizing (and delaying?) over what to do about Afghanistan/Pakistan is understandable. No approaches in combating the Taliban and al-Qaida are clear and easy. The mountainous, tribe-based region is brutally difficult to fight in, the cost in people and money immense and the regimes that run those countries unpleasant in many ways (but positively paradise compared with anything run by the Taliban).

We have been very leery of a major expansion of the U.S. effort because of its high costs, and the limits of foreign intervention in such a troubled, tormented area. But several things have pushed us to being somewhat more receptive toward an expanded U.S. military presence there –– with help from our NATO allies. One is growing evidence of the extent to which the Taliban and al-Qaida are willing to go to take over nuclear-armed Pakistan, a nation of 180 million that could threaten India.

Indeed, it is alarming to learn in recent reporting of how much the Taliban and al-Qaida see a conquest of Afghanistan as but a way station on the road to a much wider empire to be ruled by these people, who seem to revel in mass murder. Further, there is increasing evidence again that they are stepping up plans to attack the West — in the West — with anything they can get their hands on. Their recent advances in Afghanistan and Pakistan have emboldened them further. That some of them talk of alliances with the likes of the Russians and Chinese (dictators like to stay together) further ramps up the geopolitical stakes. A U.S. surrender via a precipitous withdrawal could just whet their appetite.

The almost gleeful heartlessness of the Taliban and al-Qaida toward their foes and many of their own subjects (especially women) is almost beyond description. Let’s see President Obama’s plan following the advice of his military commanders and intelligence officials. A surge may be justified.

But we can’t stay there forever, and in the end it’s the fight of the Afghans and Pakistanis to win or lose.