At a Providence City Council hearing to discuss the proposed resolutions to change the composition of the Council to include and/or add three at-large councilmen to the body, Paul Deroche, vice president of the Greater Providence Chamber of Commerce, signs up to testify in favor of the resolution.

The Providence Journal / Connie Grosch

PROVIDENCE — A coalition of city residents who want to see at-large seats incorporated into the City Council made its pitch last night, and it was met with skepticism from council members who wanted more evidence that changes to the system would improve minority representation and issue advocacy.

The council is weighing a proposal to change its own composition, cutting out 3 of its 15 wards and replacing them with at-large seats, elected by the entire city. The ward map would then be redrawn to account for larger wards, probably in 2010. The City Council must approve a resolution by Aug. 6 to place it on the ballot for this November’s election.

Supporters have argued that at-large representation would add a citywide viewpoint, would enable the council to better address macro-issues such as education and draw business to the city. They have said that a council that includes at-large members is the dominant government in cities around the country, and would lead to more diversity on the predominantly white City Council.

Some in what is called the 12-3 Committee have also made the argument that it would help minority candidates from ethnic groups that are not in the majority in any ward to gain representation.

Last night at a public hearing at City Hall, roughly 20 proponents argued that Providence needs to catch up with the rest of the country and introduce a system that melds at-large councilors with ward-based representatives.

“The overwhelming majority of New England cities and communities have citywide representation. We believe that it is time for Providence to enter the mainstream and adopt this progressive form of government,” Daniel Baudouin, executive director of the Providence Foundation, said in his testimony.

But last night, supporters were met by City Council members who repeatedly asked a simple question: How will adding at-large members improve the council?

Jim DeRentis, chief business officer at BankRI, explained his view that “having three at-large members would help the business climate.”

He was immediately questioned by Councilman Seth Yurdin.

“But why would they care about business more than ward-based members of the council?” Yurdin asked.

“They would be able to put aside ward-based decisions,” DeRentis responded.

Yurdin seemed unconvinced by the majority of the arguments in favor of the at-large candidates last night, and he spoke strongly against the proposal as the night wore on.

“The wards become less connected to their constituents, and cost more [to run for office] and increases the power for incumbents,” he said, citing a 2007 study in the National Civic Review.

“The idea that these at-large people are going to be saints, that they’re out there floating around for the good of the city is not accurate…. They’re going to be less connected to the neighborhood, they’re going to be harder to identify, if you don’t like a particular at-large person, it’s going to be very hard to vote them out.”

While he agreed that the majority of councils do have at-large candidates, he said that the move toward at-large councilors happened long ago, and the national trend is now swinging back toward a ward system.

“Providence missed the swing one way,” he said, and now wants to compensate for it by catching up.

He noted that Springfield, Mass., has been dissatisfied with its at-large system, after finding that the nine council members came from only four wards.

Stephen Durkee, a leading proponent of the 12-3 plan, said Springfield ran an entirely at-large system, and it is clear that a system that mixes at-large and ward council members is the best way to go.

Yurdin countered that, contrary to the opinion floated by proponents, studies dating to the 1990s and earlier show that even in mixed systems, there are many examples where at-large seats have led to zero minority representation, even in minority-majority communities.

Durkee argued that citywide representation may, in fact, be the only way to ensure that minority groups that are spread throughout the city have a clear path to send candidates to the council. Southeast Asians and blacks, he has previously noted, are prominent throughout the city, but are not majorities in any council ward.

“I think that’s pretty clear, the Census proves it out, and for that reason alone this is important,” he said.

Fredrick Butler, a Textron executive and vice chairman of the Providence Foundation, said that creating at-large seats could serve as an incubator for good, citywide candidates for higher office, potentially inspiring candidates to run for mayor’s office and the General Assembly.

“This kind of at-large opportunity is a great opportunity for minority candidates — or any candidates — to build support outside their wards,” Butler said.

Most of the 25 speakers among the audience of 60 came out in favor of the proposal, but several public voices against it were also heard.

Sabina Matos, a former City Council candidate, said that the at-large seats would be more expensive — right now, a resident can run for council with only a few thousand dollars. Running citywide would take much more, she said.

Meanwhile, Providence Rep. Joseph S. Almeida, co-chairman of the Minority Legislative Caucus, questioned whether this plan has the kind of broad resonance that supporters say it does.

The average voter he represents, he said, is not banging on his door in support of this. In fact, they’re barely aware of it.

“My phone’s not ringing,” he said.

He said he is all for increasing minority representation on the council, but that there has not been enough education in the community on this topic, and enough discussion on whether this is truly the way to diversify the body.

“I think there’s too much politics involved,” he said.

Councilman Luis Aponte, who represents Washington Park and has been vocal in his opposition, has argued that it is unnecessary, and if implemented, would lead to moneyed, East Side candidates taking the at-large seats.

Aponte said that he and many other council members spend much of their time dealing with cross-ward city issues — in a way, they are already citywide council members.

“My response has always been that we have it already,” he said.

Karen Feldman, one of the co-leaders of the community group Young Voices and a member of the 12-3 Committee, said that right now, yes, many council members do act as at-large councilors, dealing with issues outside their wards. But Providence is lucky to have members who act that way, and it may not always — the system itself should ensure that, she said.

Right now, she said, the system encourages council members to be micromanagers and spend the bulk of their time on street-level issues like ensuring residents’ trash is picked up.

“I want to know that structurally, it’s somebody’s job to think about education, and the lack of opportunities for young people,” Feldman said.

Arnold “Buff” Chace, a developer, made the argument repeated by many proponents last night: the council should approve placing the matter on the ballot, where the real debate can begin.

“If I was in your position, I think I would say to myself, what’s the downside of giving them the opportunity to vote on it?” he said.

Councilman Miguel Luna said there’s no need to bring this to a vote — the community already has an example of what happens, at least, when the map is redrawn and the size of districts expanded: minority representation is reduced. Look, he said, at the General Assembly redistricting begun in 2002: it resulted in fewer minorities in the legislature.

“Our districts were diluted,” Luna said. “It’s not going to work for us.”

The City Council’s ordinance committee is expected on Thursday to discuss the 12-3 proposal, along with a less-publicized plan to add two at-large members and create a 17-member council.

dbarbari@projo.com