PROVIDENCE –– Robert Urciuoli was determined to hire John Celona, Rhode Island senator and ubiquitous presence among senior citizens.

But was it a crime?

That was the question explored in federal court yesterday in the second day of testimony in the retrial of Urciuoli, former president of Roger Williams Medical Center, and Frances Driscoll, another former hospital executive. The pair face corruption charges for putting Celona on the payroll as a consultant, either to do their political bidding, as the prosecution charges, or to do valid promotion among senior citizens, as the defense maintains.

In a second trial, necessary because an appeals court earlier this year overturned guilty verdicts in 2006 based on the judge’s instructions to the jury, yesterday’s testimony focused on events of more than a decade ago, when Urciuoli wanted to hire Celona against the advice of his associates.

Subordinates at Roger Williams were skeptical. Urciuoli’s friend and lawyer warned it was a bad idea. And the hospital’s partner in an assisted-living center, where Celona ultimately wound up working as a consultant, refused to pay him.

“I saw no reason to hire him,” testified former Roger Williams vice president Maureen McNamara. “I felt we had no position for him, that he had no value.”

McNamara said that Driscoll agreed with her, but said that Urciuoli “felt strongly” about it –– that “this was something that Mr. Urciuoli wanted to do.”

“He’s a friend of the hospital,” McNamara remembered Driscoll telling her.

When Urciuoli first broached the idea to James R. McGuirk, his friend and the hospital’s longtime lawyer, in the summer of 1997, McGuirk testified yesterday that he told Urciuoli it was “a bad idea.”

McGuirk, a partner in the law firm of Edwards Angell Palmer & Dodge, questioned Celona’s health-care expertise and also fretted about the potential conflicts due to his position as a senator.

“I thought it was a bad idea,” said McGuirk. “I didn’t see how much use he could be to Roger Williams. . . . He’s a state senator. That provides all kinds of complex conflict questions. It’s very difficult for a legislator to determine when there’s a conflict and when there’s not.”

Urciuoli, recalled McGuirk, responded that “John was a good guy,” and “very connected” in the elderly community, which Roger Williams was trying to interest in its range of health-care services –– not only at the hospital, but at its nearby nursing home and assisted-living center. Celona had an “unbelievable reputation” among seniors in his native North Providence, where he was a regular presence in the elderly high rises, McGuirk recalls Urciuoli saying.

Later, under cross-examination, McGuirk told defense lawyers for Urciuoli and Driscoll that while he and Urciuoli had a difference of opinion, McGuirk did not consider Celona’s hiring illegal, nor did he bring any concerns to the hospital’s board.

McGuirk told Assistant U.S. Attorney Luis Matos that he advised Urciuoli to draw up a consulting contract that clearly defined Celona’s duties and to obtain an advisory opinion from the Rhode Island Ethics Commission to clarify “what he could and couldn’t do as a legislator.”

Over the next few months, those things were done, McGuirk testified. But there was another snag. While they had agreed that the best place to put Celona was at the assisted-living center, The Village at Elmhurst, the center’s co-owner, Peter Sangermano, objected to paying half of Celona’s $700-a-week salary.

McGuirk, who said that he initially did no work drafting Celona’s contract, hoping that Urciuoli would forget about it, testified that he thought Sangermano’s opposition would “put an end to this.” But Urciuoli told him to go ahead, that Roger Williams would pay Celona’s entire salary in hopes of demonstrating his value and eventually convincing Sangermano to pay half.

Celona was hired early in 1998, about six months after Urciuoli had first raised the idea with McGuirk. Five years later, in 2003, with Celona still on the payroll, McGuirk testified that he had another occasion to offer counsel regarding the senator.

That year, with the hospital at an impasse with Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Rhode Island over millions of dollars in disputed reimbursements, Urciuoli told McGuirk that he was more optimistic, because Celona had arranged a meeting with the head of Blue Cross.

“He was optimistic that things were going to change because there was going to be a meeting,” said McGuirk. “Senator Celona was going to arrange a meeting. [Urciuoli] wanted Senator Celona to hear for himself how unreasonable Blue Cross could be.”

McGuirk testified that that raised fresh concerns about Celona and possible conflicts between his dual role as a consultant and a senator.

“I said, ‘Gee, Bob, I’m not so sure that’s a good idea,’ ” McGuirk recalled telling Urciuoli. “I don’t know what capacity [Celona] is setting up that meeting. Is it as a senator? I didn’t like the feel of it. Bob said that the meeting was already arranged, and that he was going to go forward.”

McGuirk said that he alerted Kim O’Connell, the hospital’s internal lawyer and an anticipated witness in this trial.

The prosecution charges that Celona, by then chairman of a powerful Senate committee that oversaw health-care legislation affecting Blue Cross, used his position to pressure health insurers on the hospital’s behalf. The defense says that the situation was resolved through Urciuoli’s efforts and an independent audit, not through any efforts of Celona.

Howard Cooper, a lawyer for Urciuoli, sought to underscore that contrary to doing anything illegal in hiring Celona, the hospital had, with McGuirk’s counsel, done everything properly in hiring him, drafting a consulting agreement and seeking an advisory opinion from the Ethics Commission.

“The two things you recommended were ultimately done?” asked Cooper.

“Correct,” replied McGuirk.

“You didn’t advise him that it would be illegal to hire [Celona], did you?”

“No.”

McGuirk is expected to finish his testimony today, after which the jury will hear from Roger Williams employees.

mstanton@projo.com