A neuropsychologist testifies about Esteban Carpio's mental state and the jury hears tapes of two police interviews in which the man who admits to killing a detective says a voice told him to do it.

11:45 AM EDT on Wednesday, June 21, 2006

BY EDWARD FITZPATRICK
Journal Staff Writer

PROVIDENCE -- Hours after gunning down a detective with the officer's own pistol, a wailing Esteban Carpio told the police that he "went crazy" and that a voice told him the devil would get him if he didn't kill somebody.

Jurors yesterday listened to two tape recordings in which detectives questioned Carpio on April 17, 2005, the morning after he killed Detective Sgt. James L. Allen at police headquarters. Allen had been questioning Carpio about the stabbing of an 84-year-old woman.

Carpio, who is on trial in Superior Court for murder and other charges, has pleaded innocent by reason of insanity, and defense lawyers played the two recordings yesterday amid testimony from a neuropsychologist who backed the idea that Carpio was psychotic when he pulled the trigger.

The first interview began about 3 a.m. on April 17 at Rhode Island Hospital and the second started at 10:13 a.m. at police headquarters. In the second interview, Detective Sgt. Vincent Mansolillo asked Carpio what he was doing the day before, when Madeline Gatta was stabbed in the back outside her North End home.

"I just was drivin' around going crazy," Carpio said. "My boy telling me I gotta kill somebody."

Mansolillo asked Carpio why he had to kill somebody.

"I don't know why, he told me the devil's gonna get me," Carpio replied. "He gonna get me if I didn't kill nobody."

Mansolillo asked, "What's your boy's name?"

Carpio said, "I'm scared if I tell you, like, he's gonna jump in your body."

After Mansolillo assured him that wouldn't happen, Carpio identified his "boy" as a friend named Uriah Sheets who lives in Boston.

Mansolillo asked Carpio what happened when he was alone in a police conference room with Allen late the night before.

"I just went crazy," Carpio replied. "Everyone was out to get me."

Mansolillo said Allen was a detective trying to solve a crime.

"I know," Carpio said, "but, I don't know, it just felt like he was out to get me."

Carpio said he saw Allen's name tag and believed "my boy had a beef with" Allen. "I was sitting down, talking to the dude, and he turned his chair around . . . I seen the name tag, I flipped, I went crazy."

Carpio said he was given a cup of water, and when he went to throw it in a waste basket, Allen jumped up. Carpio said he panicked and jumped up, too, and he and Allen began wrestling. He said he didn't know how he got Allen's gun. "It just ended up in my hand," he said.

Carpio said, "Next thing you know, I don't know, the dude was dead." At another point, he said he blacked out after he got the gun.

"I was possessed by the devil or somebody," Carpio said. "I've never been like this. I never felt this much pain in my life. I never lost my whole family. . . . I never killed nobody. . . . I just want somebody to kill me because I know it's so wrong."

The police say that after killing Allen, Carpio shot out a window, dropped three stories to the ground and fled before being captured in a violent struggle downtown.

At the beginning of the second interview, Carpio sounded hysterical and talked about "blood dripping from my body." Later, Carpio said, "I've never seen my face like this before. . . . Looks like the [expletive] exorcists." Mansolillo said Carpio had seen his face in a mirror. He told Carpio he had stitches but it wouldn't look as bad when he washed up.

Carpio was also highly emotional as he said told detectives he was going crazy. "My boy told me this [expletive] and made me crazy. I don't know what made me crazy. Crazy, crazy every day. I just can't stop talking to myself. My girl don't love me no more, my mom don't love me no more, my daughter don't love me no more. My whole family don't love me no more. They think I'm crazy. I hear voices."

Carpio was much more subdued during the first interview, which took place at the Rhode Island Hospital trauma room.

Carpio had received painkillers because he'd broken a bone in his left leg when he dropped from the window. Also, a state trooper had punched Carpio in the face during the struggle on Washington Street. At times during that initial interview, Detective John Finegan urged Carpio to keep his eyes open, and he often gave no response to questions.

Carpio told Finegan he'd been trying to protect himself at the police station. "I just started seeing ghosts and spirits," he said. "I felt like someone was going to kill me for about three weeks now."

When Finegan focused on the struggle with Allen, Carpio said, "I grabbed the dude, trying to hold him off of me. . . . I just remember mad shots and I just fell out the window."

Carpio talked to Finegan about "my boy" and Uriah Sheets, saying, "I can hear my boy's voice in my brain. You know what I'm saying? And, like he was just talking to me."

Carpio said he had been hearing voices for weeks and couldn't sleep. When Finegan asked what happened in the conference room, he said, "I don't know, man. I just remember seeing my boy's face."

At one point, Finegan told Carpio, "Esteban, this is very, very serious . . . A policeman is dead. . . . How did that policeman die?" At first, Carpio did not reply, and soon afterward he said, "I was just defending myself and jumped out the window."

When Finegan pressed him on what he had to do to defend himself, Carpio said, "I had to pull the trigger or something." Soon afterward, he said, "No, I don't have to pull the trigger."

Carpio told Finegan he had not used ecstasy, cocaine or other drugs.

The tapes were played as part of testimony by Paul A. Spiers, a clinical and forensic neuropsychologist who is an assistant professor at the Boston University School of Medicine. Spiers examined Carpio in November 2005.

Lead defense lawyer Robert L. Sheketoff asked Spiers if he had "reached an opinion, to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty," about whether Carpio was suffering "from a major mental illness, disease or defect" when he killed Allen. Spiers said Carpio was "probably in the throes of psychosis" and would not have been able to "conform his behavior" to the requirements of the law.

Spiers cited the tape recordings, saying Carpio "may well have been hallucinating" during the first interview by confusing Finegan with "my boy." He said "my boy" could be a "delusional persona" or a real person whose identity he attaches to the voices he hears.

Also, Spiers noticed "symptoms of psychosis" in the second interview. For example, Carpio told detectives that when he goes to buy things at a store, the price goes up when he gets to the cashier.

Spiers noted Carpio had gone to Faulkner Hospital in Boston two weeks before the shooting, and he said he was diagnosed with psychosis and marijuana abuse. And he said that two days later, Carpio was "basically tied down to a bed" when he went to Rhode Island Hospital reporting hallucinations and feelings of paranoia.

efitzpat@projo.com / (401) 277-7368