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THE FULL SERIES

Online chat

Thank you to those who participated in our online chat Wednesday, May 16. Providence Journal environment writer Peter B. Lord answered as many questions as possible in the one-hour allotted for the chat. Additional comments received may be posted later on a reader response page.

Comments on the series may be sent to projo@projo.com.

Below is the transcript of the chat.

Kimberly
Providence
My son was lead poisoned when he was two years old. Since then I have moved out of the house that was contaminated. The landlord did not want to work on the house then and since then she has not worked towards making the apartment house lead free. Is there something that I can do? Is it manditory for her to fix the problem?



The answer depends upon whether your son's poisoning triggered an investigation by the R.I. Health Dept. Under Rhode Island law, a person is poisoned if his or her blood lead level is 10 ug/dl or above. But under state regulation, no inspection is done unless the level is 20 or above. If your son's level was 20 or above, the health department should have ordered an inspection, and if lead were found, the landlord would be ordered to make the house lead safe. If your son is under 20, there would not have been an inspection, so, unfortunately, no action would take place unless another child lived in that home and was found to be poisoned. Some advocates are pushing for lowering the levels at which inspections occur.


JIM BRUCKSHAW
CRANSTON
DEAR SIRS,

AFTER READING THE FIRST ARTICLES IN THE SERIES ON LED POISONING, SEVERAL AREAS OF IMPORTANCE REGARDING THIS ENTIRE "CRISIS" HAVE YET TO BE ADDRESSED AND TEND TO MISLEAD THE PUBLIC IN SEVERAL AREAS. FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO ADRRESS THE FACT THAT, THE REASONS FOR THE HIGH COST OF LEAD HAZARD REDUCTION THROUGHOUT THIS REGION IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE EXTEND THE CONTRACTOR MUST ADHERE TO FEDERAL, STATE, AND OFTEN LOCAL RULES REGULATIONS, AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE WORK PRACTICE. THE FACT IS THAT EVEN REMODELING CONTRACTORS PERFORMING WORK IN FACILITES ARE OFTEN REQUIRED TO PERFORM EVALUATIONS AND TESTING ON LOCATIONS THERE. tHESE RESULTS WILL DIRECTLY INFLUENCE THE AMOUNT OF PROTOECTION REQUIRED FOR BOTH THE PUBLIC AND THE WORKERS PERFOMING THE SCHEDULED TASKS. OFTEN THE CONTRACTOS DOING NORMAL RENOVATION "CHOOSE" NOT TO ADHERE TO REQUIRED SAFETY REGULATIONS. aS LEAD HAZARD REDUCTION CONTRACTORS, THESE REGULATIONS "MUST BE FOLLOWED", THIS THEN RESULTS IN THE DIRECT COST TO THE HOMEOWNER FOR THE WORK PERFORMED, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE INCITEFUL TO THE PUBLIC TO HAVE DELVED INTO MORE DETAILS THE PRECAUTIONS, COSTS, AND PROTECTIVE MEASURES AS REQUIRED BY REGULATIONS SO THE PUBLIC WOULD BE WELL INFORMED.

tHAT ALSO LEADS TO THE WORKER PROTECTIVE MEASUREMENTS REQUIREMENTS AND THE EXTEND OF ADULT LEAD POISONING IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR AS WELL. A STUDY SHOWED THAT WITHIN A THREE YEAR PERIOD A CONFIRMED NUMBER OF ALMOST 6,000 CASES OF ADULT LEAD POISONING WAS REPORTED IN MASSACHUSETTS ALONE, MOST OF WHOM WERE IN THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY, THIS IN TURN DIRECTLY IMPACTED THE HOMES

State officials are aware that the high costs of complying with lead removal regulations have severely dampened the market and kept homeowners from doing the work they should. The state Health Department is proposing a new set of regulations for housing were no children have been found with lead poisoning. The new rules would require less training for lead paint workers and are expected to make the work more affordable for homeowners.
We haven't heard any data about lead workers having high lead levels.


Henry L.Mallette
Coventry
What becomes of contaminated material when clean up of lead contaminated housing takes place.

As far as we know, the state advised homeowners to securely package the waste and dispose of them with household garbage. So presumably most of this waste ends up in the state's Central Landfill, in Johnston.


JIM BRUCKSHAW
CRANSTON
ONE OTHER POINT OF IMPORTANCE I WOULD CARE TO SUBMIT.

MANY OF THE REGULATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PLACED ON A GOVERNMENTAL LEVEL APPEAR TO BE "FEEL GOOD" LEGISLATION. PLEAS BE SURE TO INCLUDE THE FACT THAT MOST OF THE AGENCIES THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF ENFORCING THESE REGULATIONS ARE SERIOUSLY UNDERSTAFFED AND UNDERFUNDED. THIS LEADS TO CONTINUED NON-COMPLIANCE WITH MANY OF THESE RULES AND REGULATIONS, WHICH IN TURN LEADS DIRECTLY TO HIGHER CASES OF LEAD POISONED CHILDREN. AS THE OWNER OF ONE OF THE LEADING LEAD HAZARD REDUCTION TRAINING ORGANIZATIONS IN THE STAE OF RI, I OFTEN SEE CONTRACTOS VIOLATING RULES, USING NONLICENSED AND CERTIFIED PEOPLE, AND ADMITTING THAT THEY ARE UNABLE TO COPLY WITH REGUALTINS BECAUSE OF COST FACTORS.THE STATE INFORCEMENT PERSONNEL ARE DOING AS GOOD A JOB AS THEY CAN TO ENSURE THE UTMOST COMPLIANCE WITH THE REGULATION, UNFORTUNATELY THE FUNDS HAVE NOT BEEN TYPICALLY AVAILABLE TO ACTIVELY HAS A VALID AND ONGOING PROPERLY STAFFED ENFORCEMENT PROGRAM BECAUSE OF THE "POLITICS OF LEAD".

On Friday, we plan to address some of the issues you raise in your note. Some people say we need new laws. Others say we aren't doing nearly enough to enforce the laws on the books now. You might be interested in attending a hearing planned for 5 today by the Senate Health Education Welfare Committee in the State House on a number of new lead bills seeking to ``reform'' the current law.
You sound like you could provide highly expert testimony.


Rob Lindeman, MD, PhD
Brockton, MA
Mr. Lord: Today's piece upset me perhaps more than the first two. It is a stretch at best, and reprehensible at worst, to identify Pb with the surge in diagnoses of LD and ADHD. For one thing, there's enormous ascertainment bias (we're all looking for ADHD, therefore we tend to find a lot of it). Furthermore, as I stated in my mailed question, where are all the ADD grown-ups who grew up with Pb's in the 30's and 40's? This just can't be explained away with a hand wave!

Dr. Lindeman - We acknowledge that lead levels are declining throughout the country, including Rhode Island. But I think many experts disagree with your assertion in a previous note that ``we should declare victory and go home.''
The individuals we wrote about this week were diagnosed as lead poisoned by doctors. We didn't suggest how many lead poisoned kids go into special education. But Ashley definitely did, and some are wondering what the overall impact is.
There is plenty of data on the connection between lead and developmental delays by Dr. Needleman. And more recent data from Lanphaer shows developmental problems at lead levels significantly below 10.
I think our story was clear that many people with elevated levels are asymptomatic. But it's also clear that many kids seem to still be getting impaired by lead.


Liana Cassar
Providence
As Executive Director of the HELP lead Safe Center, my staff and I see the profound effects of lead poisoning on families daily. Thank you for your efforts to portray the realities of lead poisoning. Have you had much of a response from the paint industry to the research you've been doing? Did you get their persectives?

The paint industry is very anxious about the lawsuit filed by Atty. Gen. Whitehouse and we are in regular contact with them about the suit. As for this story, we didn't hear much from them. They don't disagree that lead is harming children. But they maintain it's not their fault. The blame lies with homeowners who allow the lead to deteriorate, they say.


Henry L. Mallette
Coventry
I did write to you yesterday and also this morning. Could you please follow up on my problems with lead poisoning going on in my area, the country.

If you believe there are problems, you should call DEM and ask them to inspect.
If the lead waste is buried, it's biggest threat is probably to local groundwater. Are drinking wells nearby? Is the site properly capped? Is the area monitored? I would pose those questions to DEM.
The Department of Health regulates drinking water, so you might check with them too.
The appropriate offices and phone numbers are in our story on Sunday.


Peter
Wakefield
how was lead paint made?, is it misleading to call it lead paint?
was it oil paint with lead added? what was the solvent?

The term lead paint is a shorthand.
Lead was an additive, used to make paint more durable and vibrant.
The paint was basically an oil based paint with lead added in amounts ranging up to 50 percent. At one point, the lead content was limited to one percent, and finally in 1978 lead was outlawed altogether.


molly magoon
Boston

We at the U.S. EPA-New England office are reading the articles and commend you on this series. We are working with the RI Dept. of Health and other agencies on lead poisoning prevention and we are enforcing federal lead laws throughout New England.

Check out the U.S. EPA New England website on Lead at: http://www.epa.gov/region1/topics/pollutants/lead.html

and the EPA HQ website at : http://www.epa.gov/lead

Thank you!
John and Peter


Peter
Wakefield
does the application of oil primer and two top coats provide for adequate 'enclosure' of lead paint?
provided the surface has been prepared properly?

In Rhode Island the law allows you to cover lead paint with other coatings. (In Massachusetts you have to remove the lead)We don't know if the three coats you describe will do the job. We suggest you call a lead paint abatement contractor, or the Department of Health.


Jim B.
Cranston
In reference to the disposal question:

Only on residential premises may the lead debris be disposed of under the household hazardous waste exemption program. Please be aware that the waste must be properly packaged in one layer of six mil plastic or two layers of four mil plastic if left for the weekly trash pick-up, commercially generated debris has a completely differant set of disposal regulations to adhere to.

Thanks for the additional information.


Henry Mallette
Coventry
Please explain more on meeting to be held today at 5 pm. Where in state house and what will be discussed. Have I got a story for them.

The hearing will cover the two major lead bills that have been submitted to the legislature this year. They disagree on many points.
It will be held in the Senate Lounge, starting at 5.
One bill requires that insurance companies not exlude lead coverage in their liability policies. It offers tax incentives for abatement, and more penalties for violators.
One bill limits the liability for landowners.
You can find details on the general assembly's website which is at http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/gen_assembly


Rob Lindeman, MD, PhD
Brockton, MA
There's another kind of bias too: one may call it 'extrapolation bias'. That is, if there is a statiscal correlation between Pb and IQ (and it's not very steep, by the way) at high Pb levels, say 30-40, then does it follow that an increase in Pb from 5 to 10 will lower your IQ? Many lay observers may say yes, but there is no evidence whatsoever, contra your citation of Lanphaer's work, that levels under 10 have any effect at all!

Lanphaer's work has been widely publicized and cited. We haven't seen any work that disagrees with his study, which shows IQ being diminished at levels under 10.


Henry Mallette
Coventry
I have contacted DEM,RIDOH,EPA,RIAG, AND THE GOVENOR. To this day I am convinced that in the state of RI, money and greed will win the war on lead paint. The enforcement of laws on solid waste disposal of lead in quanity are not only going unenforced, new laws are passed to help protect the violators. There is over 100,000 cubic tons of lead contaminated material being stored in Coventry today. This total tonage has grown 10 fold from the first complaint I filed with DEM in 1989. The citizens in this area need help. Check it out at DEM it is all public record.

Now, more people may be aware of the problem and maybe they can help.


Jim B.
Cranston
First, let me apologize for all my typing errors in my first few comments, just trying to type faster than I can. Secondly just a point to ponder, often we have concerns in our society that the government does not do enough to protect us from known issues. On the other hand there are those that feel the government over regulates many areas. One thing to remeber about all of these regulations and issues is that lead poisoning is now a "known" hazard, which is 100% preventable. These rules are in place to protect the children who cannot speak for themselves, and for the workers performing this work who often have the "paycheck" dangling in front of them like a carrot should they complain and ask for the protection and treatment they deserve and are allowed by regulation. Would you rather have the government step aside and eny this knowledge, or take the steps needed to act?

These rules are to help prevent our yards, homes, children, and community from becoming contaminated by non-compliance with exisiting rules. It is the responsibility of each and every adult out there to ensure that lead poisoning is kept under control and hopefully one day eraticated.

Thank you. It's helpful to receive such well-informed comments.


Lead Contractor
Providence
Lead contractors are required by law to provide protective gear, provide med. monitoring of their workers, assure that they are trained and knowledgable of lead hazards to minimize contamination. If the new regs. will only require one 8 hr. course every 5 years of one individual per company on lead awareness, how will the safety of the workers be assured if none of the safety requirements such as med. monitoring are in place or required? Who's to say that they aren't already contaminated and that they haven't contaminated family members or others?

Those are all good questions, questions that we didn't hear asked at the last hearing held by DOH on the new regulations. You can still submit comments to the department. The new regulations and the address for the comments can be found on the DOH website. It can be found along with the story on projo.com

 


Allan Rydberg
North Kingstown
Dear Mr. Lord

I am on the staff at Brown University and would like to suggest a second cause for the lead poisoning of children. I suggest that the water supply pipes should also be examined.

I have witnessed a water leak in an older Providence house that was fixed by a plumber. He was able to simply pinch the pipe closed and heat it to weld the crack closed. This was possible because the water supply pipe itself was made of 100% lead. Many older cities such as Providence have never replaced water supply pipes and lead was a popular material for these pipes at one time.

My understanding is that the use of lead pipes to carry water is not hazardous as long as the water is not acid but the recent increase in acid rain has affected the water supply and it is the acid that allows the water to dissolve some of the lead pipes.

About a year or so ago the Brown Alumni Magazine published an article on the fact that Providence seems to have more than it's share of lead poisonings. It published a map of sites where the poisonings took place and there seems to be a pattern to the poisonings. I would like to suggest that someone overlay this map with a map of water supply lines to see if there is any correlation.



Allan Rydberg

Thank you for the suggestion.


Dave
South County
Here is an interesting point.
From an environmental perspective, lead paint in one way was beneficial. It does a very good job of protecting wood, thus enhancing the life of wood. It was a better paint then you can buy today. (from the perspective of lasting) There was no need for it's use on the interior. But on the exterior it isn't nearly so hazardous.
As long as it is maintained.

All that sounds accurate. Unfortunately, in many places the exteriors have been poorly maintained, and the lead paint chips end up in soils around houses-places where children play.

 

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